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Ms. Hellen Guthrie

• Born on April 30, 1917

• Father: Elmer Holder was born in March 1895 in Greene, Indiana

• Mother: Mae Bennett

• Husband: Ralph Grave Guthrie, born in 1917 and died in 2009

• Married in 1947 for 64 years

• Children: Gene Benett

A few minutes with Hellen

Hellen's Story

(First ten pages – rough draft)

​​

Chapter 3

 

Centenarian

Hellen Eloise (Holder) Guthrie, 107​

I was twenty-six. I'm not making any money,

so I'll just join the Navy. And I did.”

 

March 11, 2024

After my mother died in October 1923, my father decided that he did not want the children. So, he called the two sets of grandparents in and said, "As you know, I've got two children, and the girl I want to marry does not want them around because she's nineteen; she doesn't want a twelve-year-old stepdaughter. So, I am going to give you two a choice, and I will give you these two children." 

My mother’s parents, Harry and Minnie[1] Bennett, said, "Well, we would like to take our daughter's children and raise them both.

But that was not the case for my father's mother – my Grandmother, Mary Ellen Holder.[2]

If I live a thousand years, I'll never forget hearing Mary Ellen say, "Well, I want the boy, but you can have that damn girl.

And so, my father said, "Well, then I'll split them up. I'll give each one of you the one you want." 

My father, Elmer Holder,[3] didn't care. He just wanted to get rid of the kids. He wanted to take up with the nineteen-year-old.

Did he?

Yeah, my father lived with this girl until he died.

Here’s Hellen’s son, Gene, to his mother: Didn't you say your dad died of syphilis?

No. He had a round of syphilis one time, yes. But he didn't have it at the time he died. 

How do you know this?

I was hearing it being discussed at the house. He didn't have a heart attack, but he did have a bad heart. I don't really know that much about him because I never spent any time with him. 

One of the last times I saw my father was when I graduated from high school in 1934.

He came up and spent some time with me and Harry and Minnie on graduation day, but he didn't go to my graduation. He was just there for about half an hour. He came over from Linton.[4] I don't know why. I used to have a picture of him, but I don't know where in the world it has gone.

My father worked in the office of the county agent. It was a grant from Purdue University. I worked there, too. When the grant was not renewed, we both lost our jobs. 

Later, he worked as a brakeman for the Pennsylvania Railroad.

What kind of feelings did you have toward your father?

Well, I would hate to admit that he was my father. The things that he did to my mother. She was so very young when she died.​

What do you remember about her?

I don't know much about my mother, Mae Bennett.[5] All I can remember is that she took me to my first day at school. She was wearing a black satin dress trimmed in orange.

 I saw them carrying her down the stairs on a stretcher and, putting her in the ambulance, and taking her to Methodist Hospital. And that's the last I ever saw her. I was six.

After my mother died, I lived with my father’s parents, James (Sol) and Mary Ellen Holder, in Lyons[6] until I was twelve.

 

When they put me in school, they made a mistake. They put me in the third grade instead of the second grade. And the teacher said, "Well, she's doing just fine." She said, "I see no reason to set her back." 

And that was how I got a year ahead in school.

But my brother Gene was two years and eight months younger than me. And when he introduced me to people, no matter who it was or anything else, he always said, "I would like for you to meet my little sister."

###

After my father split up my brother and me, that’s when I moved to Spencer[7] with Harry and Minnie.

A child could never have had a more perfect childhood than me.

I would say that if you’ve ever heard about a spoiled brat, that was me. Because with Harry and Minnie, that's the way they were.

They had five children. Two of them, Georgia and Hellen, died when they were infants. Then, they had my mother, Mae, and Aunt Jessie and Uncle Everett. 

My mother's sister, Aunt Jessie, was a wonderful woman. She was the only one of my grandmother's five children who was still around as I was growing up. My grandmother went to the funeral for every one of them except my Aunt Jessie, who was the youngest of her children. 

When I was just a kid, Aunt Jessie got mad at her mother and dad over something, and she said, "I'll just prove to them I can do as I damn well please." And so, she went out, this is down in Bicknell[8] where all the coal mines were. And she went down and picked out a good-looking coal miner who couldn't read nor write. And she married him. Then, she taught that man to read and to write.

Aunt Jessie had a talent for playing the piano. And oh, my goodness, it was terrific the way that girl could play. All she had to do was hear or see a piece of music, and she could sit down and play. 

I was the favored, spoiled grandchild that Harry and Minnie took to raise. They were probably, and without even bragging, you could say that they were probably the perfect grandparents to raise a child like me because it was something that they really wanted to do. And, of course, what they really wanted was to take both of their daughter's children and raise them. 

Anything I wanted, I got. Any place I wanted to go, I got to go. Because Grandpa Sol was a track supervisor for the Pennsylvania Railroad,[9] we had railroad passes to go anyplace we wanted to go. Once upon a time, they used to have a five-day trip across the country. It was like a tourist trip on a train, and you went from New York to San Francisco. I always wanted to do that, but I never did. 

 

###

Grandma Holder chewed tobacco, and she did not want anybody to know that. She kept it in a jar in the kitchen. 

I was going to say she was a nice old lady, but that would never describe her. But she could preserve anything in the world. Their house had a hallway that went from the front door to the back door, and she had hallway shelves from the ceiling to the floor and the length of that dining room. She had everything in there you’ve ever heard of, in the way of fruit and vegetables and meat. 

Someone around there said, "Oh, Molly's got a pump in her kitchen." Grandma Holder's nickname was Molly. And she said, "Yes, I have." That was something that not too many people had back in those days: water in the kitchen. Most people had to go outdoors to pump for water.

###

Brother Gene

Yeah, my father gave away his kids.

 

You can have that damn girl. I don't want her, but I want the boy.

If you're twelve and somebody says that in front of you, you will never forget it, even if you live to one thousand. 

I saw Gene once in a while because he came up in the summertime and stayed with us and worked at McCormick's Creek State Park.[10] And then, because his birthday was December 30, he always came up during his Christmas vacation. He said, "I never got to celebrate my birthday. It was always a New Year's Eve party." Gene stayed down there in Lyons with Sol and Mary Ellen until he graduated from high school. 

Gene knew all there was to know about having to get up at five o'clock and milk the cows and stuff like that. And boy, did he hate it!

The night he graduated, I went down to his graduation. He came out of the house, and he had a suitcase in his hand.

And I said, "Where are you going?" 

"I'm going with you."

 

"You are?" 

"Yes." He said, "I hope I never see this place (Lyons) again as long as I live."

And do you know, that was true. Perfectly true. Never during the rest of his life did he see that small town again.

###

Harry and Minnie never owned an automobile. 

Did they own a horse and buggy? How did they get anywhere?

They went on the train because Grandpa Sol was in charge of all the tracks between Spencer and Vincennes.[11] That’s about one hundred and thirty-three miles of track. 

Well, they had these little motor cars that fit on the tracks, and he was always running them as fast as they would go; so fast that they would jump the tracks. One time he broke his collarbone. 

They finally put a sign up that said Sol was never to be allowed in a motor car on those tracks again. 

###

Churning

Grandpa Harry always had this wooden churn, and he took a big gray-white towel and put it all around him, on his lap and everything. He sat there, and he churned three pounds of butter, and then he got his cheese. He churned with milk from a Jersey cow.[12] He had six Jersey cows. 

After he churned the butter and took it out of the churn, he put it in these wooden cheese bays, and all the liquid dripped out. What was left was cottage cheese.

But it wasn't until the last year or two that I found out how cottage cheese was made.

Here’s Hellen’s son, Gene, to his mother: You don't happen to have any of those butter molds hidden anywhere, do you? Because they're worth a couple of hundred dollars a piece. 

###

Yes, my father married that nineteen-year-old. Her name was Beatrice Hovey,[13] and they called her Ms. B. I don't know. She and Dad lived with Beatrice’s mother (Sallie Meeks) for a while. Beatrice later became the principal of the elementary school in Linton.[14] I used to occasionally go down and visit her on a Sunday afternoon or something. This was after my father died. And of course, by then, I was married. 

I swear there was nothing Beatrice couldn’t do or wouldn’t learn to do. 

She was always very nice to me. I don't know how in the hell she got hooked up with my father. Long after he died, she and I kept in touch during school vacations and things. 

One summer, she decided that her car looked pretty crummy, so she painted it, and then it looked brand new. 

One time, Beatrice came up to my house and spent a week with me. My kitchen linoleum in the house, the prints had worn off of it, and it was just a crummy brown. She said, "Hellen, your kitchen floor is miserable-looking." She said, "I think I'll paint it." 

"You will?" 

"Yes." She said, "I'm going to paint the kitchen floor while you're at work and Ralph’s asleep (because he worked nights at Western Electric[15] in Indianapolis[16])." So, Beatrice painted that floor and dabbed at it and made designs on it. She painted it green and splashed it with red. And when I came home that night, it looked like I had a brand-new floor. She had done such a beautiful job.

Well, I've done everything, but I never refinished a floor. In this house, I've painted everything and done everything I wanted. I wanted the hallway papered, so I papered it. I wanted this room over here painted this color, so I painted it that color, and so forth. I've always done that, but now, with my eyesight going, I can’t do that.

###

Making Clothes

I used to be an expert seamstress. I made clothes for myself, for my husband, and for my son. I always made time for crocheting, knitting, and other handiwork.

###

My doctor doesn’t seem to have the faintest idea what caused my eyesight to go. The specialist said, "Hellen, there's not a thing in the world that I can do to make your sight any better." Then he said, "But I'm going to do everything in the world to keep it from getting any worse." He's a great guy. 

I am still active as long as I can walk around with my walker, but I don't see well enough to paint and paper things anymore. It isn't that I can't do it; it's that I can't see to do it.

###

Telephones

The first telephone that Harry and Minnie got was when I was in the Navy. This was during World War II, and phones were in short supply. They were eligible because they had two grandchildren in the armed services – my brother, Gene, in the Army, and me in the Navy – who want to call up. They applied for a phone, and the government said yes. 

###

Outhouses 

We never had a two-holer because where my mother and father lived in Indianapolis, they had an indoor bathroom. There were a bunch of doubles up there, and they all had bathrooms. 

Now, that was not true for Harry and Minnie. They had a two-holer, and there was always a Sears catalog and a bucket of lime nearby; you were supposed to put some of that lime in the hole so there wouldn't be any stinky. The Sears catalog, of course, was for wiping. 

###

Babysitting

This gal comes up one afternoon, she said, "I came up to babysit with you." She said that the people at church said she needed to get out and do something, and that she could come up here and sit with me, and it would be good for both of us. It was a case where her son had been killed, and they said that she had to get out and get over it. So, she came up, and I said, "Well, what are you supposed to do when you babysit with me?" 

"Heavens, I don't know. What are we supposed to do?" 

And I said, "Well, do you know how to sew?" 

"Heavens, no, I don't know how to sew." 

"OK, I'll teach you to sew."

So, that's what we did. 

###

The recruiters and signing up 

Despite Hellen's hardships at a young age, she grew into a bright and ambitious woman. She graduated from Spencer High School with top honors in 1934. 

Well, one evening in 1943, I was just sitting on our front step. I was restless, and I didn't know what I wanted. I had been working at a law firm (my first job) through high school and a year or so after that. I didn’t like it much. I figured that life was passing me by. I didn't know what I was going to do about it. 

Lo and behold, here comes these two kids, Navy recruiters, from an office over there in Bloomington,[17] which is a nearby college town. It's a good place to recruit because a lot of people don't know what they want to do when they get out of college.​

 

So, these recruiters said, "Here, this is what you want to do. Enlist and serve the country's World War II efforts.”

I was twenty-six. I'm not making any money here, so I'll just join the Navy. And I did.

I left home in August 1943. Best decision I’ve ever made – except for my husband Ralph. 

First, the Navy sent me to Hunter College[18] for indoctrination. We spent a month up there, and then they sorted us out and decided where we should go. They sent me to Yeoman School,[19] which is a training school (at Oklahoma University) for secretarial workers in the Navy. I finished a three-month course there and graduated in the top forty out of four hundred students. I was a third-class petty officer. 

It was Christmastime, and I came home. After Christmas, I moved to Washington, D.C., to work at the Office of Naval Intelligence. 

__________________________

Footnotes

[1] On Hellen’s mother’s side, Harry Westcott Bennett was born in 1870 in Gosport, Indiana. Minnie Izora Hedrick was born in 1872 in Monroe, Indiana. They married in March 1892 when he was twenty-one and she was nineteen. They had five children in ten years, including Hellen’s mother, Mae. 

[2] Hellen's grandmother on her father’s side, Mary Ellen (Ault) Holder, was born in 1866. Hellen's grandfather, James Solomon "Sol" Holder, was born in 1851. The couple married in 1883 and went on to have six children over the course of twenty-two years, including Hellen's father, Elmer.

[3] Born in the small town of Greene, Indiana, in March of 1895, Elmer Holder led a quiet life. He tied the knot with his sweetheart, Mae J. Bennett, in their hometown in March of 1916. Together, they raised two children, Hellen and Gene.

[4] Linton has a population of about 5,200 residents. Located about ninety miles southeast of Indianapolis, within the Bloomington metropolitan area, Linton is mostly known for the coal mines that dot the landscape. The town was built primarily by John W. Wines, who first established his goods-selling business in the area in 1831.

[5] Born in Spencer in 1896, Mae Bennett was born to young parents Minnie Izora Hedrick and Harry Bennett. Surrounded by her three sisters and one brother, she lived a life full of love and laughter until her untimely passing at only twenty-seven years.

[6] In Washington Township in Greene County, Indiana lies the modest town of Lyons. With a population of some 742 residents, this quiet community is often overlooked by outsiders. However, for those who call it home, it is a cherished part of the Bloomington Metropolitan statistical area and a peaceful slice of small-town life.

[7] Amid limestone riverbeds lies Spencer, Indiana, a small town fifty-five miles southwest of Indianapolis. It is flanked by Bloomington on the east (seventeen miles away) and Terre Haute on the west (fifty-six miles away). In the valley of "Owen Valley," it is surrounded by the winding White River and its scenic surroundings."

[8]  Bicknell, a town that sits one hundred ten miles southwest of Indianapolis, was established in 1860 by John Bicknell who acquired two hundred forty acres of sprawling land. However, it wasn't until the early 1920s when coal mines emerged, offering jobs for over two thousand workers. Despite the decline and eventual closure of many mines in 1927, Bicknell remained a haven for families and retirees seeking a quiet life away from the chaotic urban lifestyle.

[9] For over a century, the Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR) reigned supreme in the world of American rail travel. Its web of tracks spanned from the Northeast to booming industrial cities in the Midwest, revolutionizing transportation and commerce throughout the 1800s and early 1900s. Notable for its progressive adoption of cutting-edge technology, the PRR also delighted passengers with the famed Broadway Limited that whisked travelers between New York City and Chicago.

[10] Within Owen County, Indiana lies the McCormick's Creek State Park. This hidden gem became a state park in 1916 and remains the oldest in Indiana. With over 1,900 acres of land, visitors can marvel at breathtaking landscapes, from rugged cliffs and rushing waterfalls to a rich collection of plants and animals.

[11] In Knox County, Indiana, Vincennes stands as a storied town in the southwest corner of the state adjacent to Wabash River. Back in 1732, French fur traders claimed the land, establishing one of Indiana's oldest European settlements. Reverberating with tales of old, this city boasts many historic landmarks, including the first Catholic cathedral in the state and once serving as the capital of the Indiana Territory from 1800 to 1813.

[12] Milk-lovers and those with a passion for farming frequently opt for the docile Jersey breed of cows due to their high milk yield, ability to thrive in various environments, and friendly demeanor.

[13] Beatrice Hovey Holder was born in 1903 and died in 1990.

[14] In the small town of Linton, Indiana lies Linton-Stockton Elementary, a public school with an approximate student body of 673.

[15] Western Electric, a subsidiary of the American Telephone and Telegraph Company (AT&T), wielded immense power in the world of telecommunications for many years. Their range of products included various communication devices, including rotary and push-button phones, and they were highly praised for their durability and reliability. Western Electric manufactured the iconic black rotary phones favored by AT&T.

[16] Indianapolis proper boasts a population of some nine hundred thousand residents, while the Metropolitan Statistical Area that includes Carmel and Greenwood is over 2.1 million residents. Indianapolis serves as both the state's capital and its largest urban center. Known for its legendary sporting events like the high-octane Indianapolis 500 race and the reigning NFL champions, the Indianapolis Colts, this city is full of athletic energy. However, beyond its impressive sports resume, Indianapolis also offers a rich cultural landscape with an array of museums, theaters, and thriving businesses such as Eli Lilly and Allison Transmission.

[17] In the slopes of southern Indiana, Bloomington sits fifty miles southwest of Indianapolis. It is home to some eighty-five thousand residents and serves as a beloved second home for countless students and alumni of Indiana University.

[18] In Manhattan, Hunter College’s central campus is on the Upper East Side. It is one of many institutions under the City University of New York (CUNY) umbrella. Known for its challenging coursework and active community life, the college provides students with a comprehensive educational journey.

[19] To be admitted into the Navy's Trade School, affectionately dubbed the Yeoman School, one needed a background in clerical work, adequate penmanship, and the capability to type a 200-word correspondence with at least a seventy percent score. Though familiarity with stenography was desired, it was not compulsory.

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